Transcript

Anne Nicholson Weber: (00:00)
This is episode 13. Thanks for joining me. If your newborn is suffering from colic, constipation, difficulty sleeping, or latching issues, you might consider consulting with a pediatric chiropractor. That’s what we’re gonna be talking about today. Welcome to the Birth Guide Chicago podcast, conversations about building your circle of support. In the childbearing year, we connect you with experts in our community who can help you conceive, stay healthy during pregnancy, have a safe and satisfying birth, and embrace the joys and challenges of becoming a new family. I’m your host, Anne Nicholson Weber, and the founder of birth guide chicago.com, where every month, thousands of Chicago area families find relationship centered care from conception through postpartum period.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (00:57)
Today I am talking to two chiropractors who offer pediatric care, including Care for Newborn. Dr. Angie Recendez is a Webster certified chiropractor, and the owner and founder of Bright Futures Chiropractic with offices in Arlington Heights and Pilsen. Her practice is focused on prenatal and pediatric care. Dr. Lauren Shelton is a co-founder of Rooted Chiropractic, which is a family-focused practice in Clarendon Hills. She is Webster certified and has a pediatric certification from the Academy Council of Chiropractic Pediatrics. So welcome. Today we’re talking about chiropractic care for the newborn, newborn, and let’s start by talking about some of the newborn issues that chiropractic is especially well suited to address. So maybe Angie, could you kick us off, um, what symptoms might typically send a family to you for health?

Angie Recendez: (01:48)
I would say the most common symptoms that we see in our practice, uh, would be a, like colic, constipation, um, a reflux. Um, a lot of latch issues, I would say are pretty common in this newborn phase. And just kind of like an irritable, fussy baby. You know, mom is struggling to connect with the baby. And for me, the biggest one during this phase is seeing the mom find her mom, um, in this era, because it’s so hard to connect with a new baby. ’cause obviously they can’t communicate what’s going on. It’s, if you’re a new mom, you’re like, you know, what can I do? I already tried everything. I changed the diaper. I fed you, I did all the things. I’m burping you, but why, why are we still struggling here? So, um, while the main challenges, the symptom, um, I would say the biggest win is seeing mom and dad, uh, connect with baby at that phase.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (02:36)
Lauren, is there anything you would add to that?

Lauren Shelton: (02:39)
No, I think that exactly sums it up. Um, I guess the only other thing I would add would be a, uh, improvement and range of motion. So a lot of parents come to us saying, my baby, you know, only can turn their head one way or the other. And then they start to see flattening on their head.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (02:57)
Uhhuh, , because they, they always lying in the same way.

Lauren Shelton: (03:00)
Exactly.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (03:01)
So what does a treatment look like with a newborn and what is actually happening that would help resolve some of the issues? You talked about colic, you talked about, uh, constipation, irritability. Lauren, what, what are you doing and how does it work?

Lauren Shelton: (03:16)
Absolutely. That is such a good question. So when we adjust babies, it is nothing like adjusting an adult. The pressure that we use is the same pressure to touch your eye, uh, check the ripeness of an avocado. It is very gentle. What we are doing is we are removing interference of the nervous system. Nine times out of 10, um, a baby has a misalignment in their very upper region of their neck, and this is where the vagus nerve is. The vagus nerve is what helps with rest, digesting their food, calming, having bowel movements. So when we adjust that baby, we are directly impacting the nervous system, which oftentimes calms the baby. This is also the region of the neck that if they’re seeing that decreased range of motion, when we restore motion there, then they’re able to move their neck. They’re able to open their mouth more, get a better latch. Um, it’s also affecting their digestive system.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (04:19)
When you put pressure on the babies, is it in the same region? So you’re touching them in the neck, is what you’re doing when you adjust?

Lauren Shelton: (04:27)
Well, of course we’re looking at their full spine. Um, but, uh, a majority of the time the upper cervical region of the neck has a subluxation and it’s usually due to in utero positioning, um, as well as the birth process, whether it’s a fast birth process, a very slow one baby gets stuck. Um, if there’s some sort of birth intervention, we oftentimes seem the very top of the neck in the very bottom of the spine. The sacral region has a misalignment.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (04:58)
So Angie, when when you’re treating a newborn and they can’t talk, how do you know if you’ve done anything ? It’s, you do these little gentle pressures. Can you see a response in the baby right away sometimes, or what does it look

Angie Recendez: (05:11)
Like? I, I get this question often, uh, usually from dads is, um, well, how do you know you’re done? How do you know you did enough? And so the example that I like to give is, if you put your finger on butter, just kind of like melts away from you. It’s like the, you get feedback from their own body, muscles start to relax, they feel relaxed. Sometimes you get a yawn and a baby. And so those are some of those soft signs that, hey, you know, we’re definitely heading into the right direction. Um, the other feedback we get are then from the parents, we get those text messages hours after the adjustment. Like, my baby poop, oh my gosh, we got like poop all over the car seat now. Or, you know, oh my gosh, slept so long and I’ve never seen my baby sleep this long.

Angie Recendez: (05:54)
Um, and we’ll usually warm parents, it’ll be like, like after an adjustment. Most common symptoms are mur poop and more sleep. But I, I wanna go back a little bit into like, well, baby can’t tell us that there’s an issue, right? Like, uh, they parents tell us from a subjective manner. And I know Dr. Lauren and ourself and our practice view similar technology to give us input and give these babies a voice, uh, when they can’t tell us something’s going on. And so we use these scans to open up, uh, information about their body and their nervous system. Is their nervous system more stuck in that state of fight or flight, uh, reactive, not allowing them to be in that opposite side, which is where we want ’em, which is in, in that rest and digest. And, um, so that scan really gives us that good insight and input.

Angie Recendez: (06:38)
There’s the other scan and we call it a thermal scan. And so that’s giving us a temperature reading along the spine, comparing left to right. So that’s really giving us that input into like, well, what is that vagus nerve doing? You know, what is that upper circle do area doing? What is that mid-back area doing? Is there a little bit of maybe reflux related to this area? Um, or that sacral area? So really helps. The answer wa was that position in utero, was that birth process as physically stressful or traumatic? Um, that has been affecting their ability to self-regulate.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (07:11)
I think I missed Angie, when you were talking about the first type of scan. I know you said thermal scan and something else. Scan, what was the first one?

Angie Recendez: (07:19)
It’s called a heart rate variability. So it really gives us a window into that balance. Uh, we have two modes of operation. Uh, a sympathetic, the fancy word, uh, which is that stressed out, uh, part of the nervous system. The opposite to that is the fancy words, parasympathetic, I like to call it the Netflix and chill part of the nervous system. And you can’t be Netflix and chilling and stressed at the same time. And so it really helps us understand like, is this baby stressed? Is this baby actually Netflix and chilling? Um, or are we somewhere in the middle and how can we rebalance?

Anne Nicholson Weber: (07:51)
Got it. Got it. Anything you wanna add to that, Lauren?

Lauren Shelton: (07:55)
Yeah, so I always tell parents when they’re looking for a pediatric chiropractor to find a pediatric chiropractor that does these skins because I completely agree with Angie. You know, we can’t, we can’t communicate with the babies. But these give us such a good objective finding into what is going on with the baby in their nervous system, how they’re functioning. And we do them at the start of care as well as per periodically throughout care. So we’re able to see, you know, the parents are telling us what they’re finding, we’re seeing what were changes are happening, but then also the scans are able to show us what objectively is also changing.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (08:36)
I’ve only recently learned about the importance of the vagus nerve, and it’s kind of, I think in the zeitgeist a little bit. And I had no idea that you were gonna connect to that topic. If you could talk a little bit more about the vagus nerve and, and how you think you are impacting its function.

Lauren Shelton: (08:54)
The vagus nerve is the longest nerve in the body. It is at the very top bone of your neck. It goes up into your face, it affects the latch. Um, but then it also goes down. It controls your heart, it controls your digestive system. It is the most incredible nerve, and there’s so much up and coming research on it. The vagus nerve with every single chiropractic adjustment is affected. That is why adults who come in and get adjusted that are there for neck pain, back pain, headaches, things that, you know, they typically think of when they think of chiropractic. Start saying, wow, since I’ve been getting adjusted, my anxiety is lower. My stomach pain that I’ve had for years doesn’t seem to bother me as much.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (09:43)
And can you talk, uh, I, I’m having trouble picturing exactly how you are having an effect on the vagus nerve. Can you talk about that, Lauren?

Lauren Shelton: (09:53)
So the nervous system is within the spine, the brain, the spinal cord, the nerves that all come out. What is happening is that our brain and our body are constantly communicating. There’s a feedback loop. Our brain talks to our body. Our body then communicates back up. When there is a misalignment towards in tension in a certain area of our body, it is going to dampen that communication and it actually causes those nerves to over fire. So as Angie and I are talking about that sympathetic state, that fight or flight, uh, we’re feeling like a bear is chasing us or you know, our palms are always sweaty, specifically in that upper region, upper cervical region of the neck, the vagus nerve is over firing, over firing, over firing. So when we reali or, um, correct the subluxation, the vagus nerve is able to calm down, the parasympathetics are able to be tapped into, and that is how we’re impacting the vagus nerve.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (10:56)
And another word we haven’t defined is subluxation. So what is a subluxation? You wanna take that Angie?

Angie Recendez: (11:04)
No, Lauren, you’re so good. Thank you.

Lauren Shelton: (11:06)
. Uh, a subluxation is interference within the nervous system because the nerves and the spinal cords come out of every single vertebra. Anytime there’s a misalignment in one of those little tiny segments, it’s going to cause a subluxation, a misalignment, um, inflammation. Everyone kind of talks about it slightly different, but it’s really when one of those vertebra of the spine are misaligned.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (11:36)
So essentially you’re getting the spine aligned and that let’s the flow, let’s say, through the nerves, uh, open up and be more effective.

Lauren Shelton: (11:46)
Exactly.

Angie Recendez: (11:48)
And I think one of the things that’s, I had this question yesterday and I was like, that’s a good question. And they’re like, like, well, can I ever be not misaligned? Like, can I ever just be and stay like this forever? And I was like, it’s possible if our spine was like a rod and if that was the case, then we’d all, I mean, we’d have no movement. And so the beauty of our creator is that there is movement between each of these bones and it allows us to have this motion. And so because we have this motion, we can misalign at any of these segments. And so the question is like, well, what causes us to get misaligned? And so we talk about it as physical stress, chemical stress and emotional stress. Uh, emotional stress are, you know, life stressors that happening. Tech overload, um, behavioral things, uh, family life, mom life, all the things, uh, chemical stress are the things that we put in our body and, uh, on our body.

Angie Recendez: (12:39)
So, you know, lotions, detergents, products, the quality of our foods, the environment as well. You know, we live next to a major city, Chicago, uh, there’s pollution in the air. We have air two major airports in the city. Um, our water supplies might be things going on in there. And so there’s not much that we can do about it. I don’t want us to like freak out and be like, let’s move to the middle of nowhere. Uh, but let’s acknowledge that, hey, that is a big one, so let’s do a better job with, you know, the products, the quality of our foods. And then the last one is that physical stress. And so that’s why like, you know, we always go as far back as like what was preconception like, what was pregnancy like? Were there any stressors there? Because, uh, we know, and research tells us now that the first time we experienced stress is in utero.

Angie Recendez: (13:22)
Uh, if you or I or any of us are stressed, will produce a hor a hormone called cortisol. Cortisol travels in our bloodstream, and mom and baby share the same bloodstream. So baby will experience life and stress the same way we do, but just on the inside. And so we wanna really understand, well it, we’re seeing colic right now as a newborn, but how long has this stress been accumulating in the system? It didn’t just start in the birth process, but what are these, you know, putting the pieces and the picture together to say, hey, well what is it gonna take to get this baby unwound and, and on a good path, the next big physical stressors, the day that we’re bored? And when you think about it, birth is kind of rough, you know, uh, even if it’s like a water birth hands off, you still have the normal physiology of birth, which is the uterus squeezing you from the top.

Angie Recendez: (14:08)
You’re navigating that birth canal. You’re finally born, you’re seeing new lights, you have to breathe on your own. You know, all these new things that are happening right as you’re born. Um, if you’re in a different type of a setting, they’re rubbing you with a towel. You know, there’re just different things that are happening. So that’s that biggest physical stress. And then if there’s, you know, more interventions, um, for us. So I find that, uh, more of our, our high interventions and c-section, uh, births are just a little bit more physically traumatic. But I will say, um, we’re happy interventions exist. Uh, personally in my own birth, if you read about my story, like I’m happy that we were able to have, uh, Maddie safely at 32 weeks, um, due to preeclampsia because her and I are here to talk about it. But we also need to acknowledge that physical stress associated, um, uh, with the birth and, and how do we help alleviate that, uh, post, uh, delivery and after baby’s born.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (15:02)
So as you talk about all of the stressors and challenges that the newborn and the mom having just been through birth, um, have experienced, how do you know as a parent, whether you’re in the realm of normal? Because of course, all babies cry, all babies are stressed at times, all babies probably have a couple of days where they don’t poop. I mean, how do you keep from being so hypervigilant and worried about every little thing, but also recognize when you might have a baby who would benefit from some care from someone like you? I don’t know. Lauren, you wanna try that one?

Lauren Shelton: (15:41)
Sure. So I would always say the biggest thing with this is trusting your mom gut. As a mom, we, I feel this so strongly. We inherently know if something is truly wrong. And so I always say, if you are have any suspicion, any thought that maybe something is wrong, at least investigate it. And I really pride myself on being that resource for mom. Oftentimes a mom comes in and she says, I don’t know if I should be here. I don’t know if this is what my child needs, but can you help me? And you know, there are times when I say, your child is, they are in a great spot, but maybe you need, you know, a myofunctional therapist or a lactation consultant. It is not always chiropractic. I’m not always going to say 100%, this is what you need. There is a time and place for lots of things, many different options.

Lauren Shelton: (16:38)
There’s so many resources in today’s day and age, which can be a good thing and an overwhelming thing, you know. And so I always tell parents, come on in, let’s do an exam. Let’s see if chiropractic is what you need or else we will get you to the right resource. And I know as knowing Dr or Angie, that that is a very similar, if not the same, you know, philosophy that she takes. We are both moms. We wanna help moms and give them that confidence in trusting their gut and making the best decisions for their family.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (17:09)
So how would you define the area of expertise, um, for your work as compared to a pediatrician? How is a parent? Do I know whether to call my pediatrician or to call you Angie,

Angie Recendez: (17:22)
Great question, Ann. Um, so I would say for sure your pediatrician, you’re already going to them a couple times, but if your pediatrician is giving you a answer or recommendation that maybe doesn’t sit well with you or not the right, right, you wanna go, um, I would definitely, um, you know, seek out the care of a pediatric chiropractor. Um, but I would say the philosophy that I personally do, you know, ask different providers that I think are in the same realm and then make the decision that’s best for my family. What’s best for my good friend may not be the best decision for me. Uh, that may not be best for somebody else. And so that way you can piece together the pieces that, and the pieces of information that you need to make an informed decision. And so I always say like, I want every parent to make the most informed decision for their family, but if I don’t have the pieces of information that I need to make that informed decision, um, then I’m not, you know, I’m not making the best decision that I can.

Angie Recendez: (18:25)
Uh, the other thing that I wanted to add was, um, if you’re getting an answer, like they’ll grow out of it. What I find is that kids don’t grow out of it. They grow into something else. Um, I’ve had moms tell me that they have a colicky baby and that their provider told them to go into the other room and drink wine. Like, that’s not the answer. Me as a new mom wants to hear, like babies should be, like Dr. Lawrence said, eating, pooping, and sleeping. And if this kiddo isn’t thriving in that then, and the answer you’re getting is that they’ll grow outta it. Or, uh, you know, toughen, you don’t definitely seek another answer or another, uh, feedback by another provider. Um, I think every provider wants to do well. Um, but within the realm of their specialty, you know, uh, a pediatrician specialty is to, uh, identify and diagnose. And, and, and that’s great. You know, the, uh, realm of pediatric chiropractic care is, uh, more of that preventative, uh, uh, helping with the solution. But how do we get this on a wellness track, taking that holistic approach to, to their body and their health.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (19:32)
I remember, um, reading one something that really struck me as true, which is that complimentary care, integrative care, like what you offer is particularly suited for more chronic issues. And, um, more sort of, more conventional medicine is extremely good at, um, more of the crisis or the, you know, specific event that can be resolved with an antibiotic, with the surgery, whatever. Um, and obviously pediatricians are dealing with much more than that and behavioral issues. But I think the thing, Angie, that you said that really resonated for me, and this has come up before in this discussion, is there are so many options. There is so much information. And as a parent, you have two options. One is to just kind of put on blinkers because you, it’s too much. And then you just essentially sign over your judgment to a particular expert that you choose, or opening yourself up to as broad a range of ideas and approaches as you can.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (20:35)
And finding that moment when your, when your mother intuition says, Ooh, yeah, that sounds right to me. And I think the, the overload of information in some ways makes that harder because it just feels like the possibilities are infinite, but also it’s something you’re gonna be doing your entire life as a parent, right? You’re gonna be, all your friends are gonna have different ideas. There are all kinds of norms and social pressures, and your parents have ideas and your aunt has ideas . And it, I feel like, and it honestly, this is at the core of birth guide, right? It’s like you need to know what your options are and find what aligns with who you are. And then that’s the support that you go to. But you need to start by opening yourself up to a broader range of ideas. So, um, I really resonate to the things you’re saying, and chiropractic was not something that I considered or was aware of when I was a new mother. So, um, do you use any other types of treatment than, um, the, the adjustments that you’ve talked about? Is there anything supplementary that you do? And maybe Lauren, you could talk about that.

Lauren Shelton: (21:49)
Sure. So we also do a lot of cranial work. Um, so we do cranial psychotherapy, uh, which is a lot of also gentle, um, touch points on the cranium, on the sacrum, um, as well as intraoral work. So we always, in Illinois, we are able to go in baby’s mouths and we are able to work on their palate, work on their tongue. Um, and this is a really amazing way to work on a bone that’s called your sphenoid, and we’re able to work on it intraorally, and we just see incredible results, especially with latching feeding, um, issues and challenges.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (22:30)
What would be a typical course of treatment? How long of a, um, how long is that typically?

Lauren Shelton: (22:36)
That’s a great question, and unfortunately it’s always, it depends on the, the baby. For someone who’s coming in for a specific symptom, you know, colic, constipation, a tongue and lip tie, breastfeeding challenges, that is going to depend on the scans, uh, how the baby is presenting, what is our exam showing us. Um, and it can be anything truly from six visits, um, to 12 to 24 visits. Um, but 24 visits, I would say in our office is, you know, a lot of birth interventions, other comorbidities happening. And

Anne Nicholson Weber: (23:13)
Is that weekly visits or,

Lauren Shelton: (23:16)
So that would be multiple times a week, potentially two to three times a week. Dr. Angie, is it the same in your office?

Angie Recendez: (23:23)
Yeah, I would say for us, um, I would say on average it’s three times a week, and then we would tailor down to about twice a week. But I would agree, um, you know, there’s lots of interventions. There’s, you know, things that happened. Um, you know, we wanna get this baby out of that situation as soon as possible because, you know, the nervous system, the, the, uh, fastest time that our nervous system develops is in this first year of life. You know, it’s about 60, 65% of the nervous system develops in this year. And if we spend a large amount of time in this critical time in that stress out subluxated state, you know, it’s the nervous system’s wiring during this time, it’s hard wiring and setting this up for the rest of our foundation. So the sooner that we can get this baby nervous system more regulated, well, well balanced, you know, getting this baby out of that subluxated state, um, you know, this baby’s gonna thrive.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (24:18)
Um, and I wonder if you could mention perhaps there are other types of therapies as well that you feel like when a parent has an issue and they’re going through this process of trying to find their right help, who else might they consider besides, we’ve talked about pediatrician, we’ve talked about, um, pediatric chiropractors. Are there other, um, experts that you would hope people would consider Lauren?

Lauren Shelton: (24:43)
Um, I always tell moms to have a lactation consultant. A lactation consultant is the most invaluable person they can have on their team. And I found that firsthand. You know, I work with lactation consultants all the time, and then I had my first, and I was like, whoa, what is happening? Um, so I think a lactation consultant is a phenomenal resource. Um, I also, you know, there’s pediatric, um, physical therapists, occupational therapists, uh, speech language pathologists. There are so many resources, and I find that, um, moms that come to us, they’re oftentimes familiar with all these people in the Chicagoland area. Hey, do you know this pediatric PT or OT or speech? And I feel like when you are passionate about, um, pediatric care in general, no matter what your expertise is, parents start to find out about you now, you know, and we all are in this network, and we kind of understand, okay, maybe this person would be a good fit. And so I think that’s really the, the benefit of, um, all these resources.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (25:53)
Yeah, and of course, it’s, it’s both finding a kind of therapy that’s right, that’s actually effective for your child and also that feels, um, uh, that feels right to you, but it’s also the individual provider. Right,

Lauren Shelton: (26:08)
Exactly.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (26:08)
And when you talked early on about how, I think it was you, Angie, who said, one of the outcomes of the work you do is not just a baby who’s more relaxed, who’s fake nervous, settled down, who’s sleeping, pooping, and eating, but a mother who feels empowered. And maybe the place for us to end is to talk a little bit about what that looks like. How does coming to an expert on, um, subluxation and chiropractic adjustment impact me and my mothering style, my mothering confidence?

Angie Recendez: (26:43)
That’s a really great question, Anne. I would say, um, I think for me, I like to connect to all of our practice members on a parent perspective. You know, I love our first visit because I get to meet someone new, I get to meet a mom that is on the same stage that I was, and I have three kids now. And so like, I get it. Um, you know, I remember me as a mama one, me as a mama two, and now me as a mama three, I would say I connect to all of our practice members on like a friend standpoint while I am a provider. And I am, you know, I’m giving you that information and I’m educating on, on what this is, if this is the first time you’ve been here. Um, but I really wanna just be like, Hey, I’m your friend.

Angie Recendez: (27:25)
I’m this, I’m this really knowledgeable friend here. Use me as you need. Text me. I, I text all of our patients. I send them a text after their first appointment. ’cause I want them to have a direct access to me if they’re part of my practice to be like, Hey, Dr. Angie, um, this is happening. What is your suggestion? Yes, you can talk to me when you’re at the practice. Um, but sometimes my best questions come when I’m not in mom mode. I’m in, uh, like me mode at like, you know, 12 midnight, three in the morning, and like, I’m like, oh yeah, I forgot to ask this question. And so I’m like, text me at any time. I might not reply at 3:00 AM unless I’m nursing. Um, but I’ll reply at a different time. And so it’s like, you know, not many of us have that knowledgeable best friend that I can just send a text message to her, even when I was a mom, right? Like, is this poop normal? Or like, should I like talk to someone about this? You know, those little things. Um, and so, you know, I would say I’m pretty goofy in my practice and I’m, you know, really high energy and excited. Um, and so like I want, you know, that to translate to our moms to, you know, just utilizing us as as a resource for them.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (28:31)
Yeah. Lauren, do you wanna add anything, um, from your perspective?

Lauren Shelton: (28:36)
I completely agree with Angie. I think it is so nice to have our clinical expertise here is what I’m finding here is what I can do. Here are my recommendations, but also I’m a mom. I get this and I come back to, um, our recommendations. So many times I say to a mom, I think that what would be best for the baby is three times a week for, you know, the next two weeks. And let’s see how that goes. But also, I am a mom. If that feels really daunting to you, that’s okay. Let’s try less, you know, one time a week, twice a week and let’s see what results we’re getting. And I think that comes down to authenticity. You know, we wanna get results. We wanna see these changes and improvements for both, you know, the baby and also for the mom and the family in this transition.

Lauren Shelton: (29:31)
But also we wanna be real. And I think that’s why so many people love going to their chiropractor because I think that’s how so many of us are. We like having this community where we are able to tell them and, and, and educate them and empower them with the knowledge we have, but also create a safe space for them. And so I know Dr. Angie in my office are, they’re very similar in the way that they feel like a home. They feel like a, a place you can come in and hang out. And there are so many times that moms become empowered by meeting another mom there. Not just seeing me or seeing the other providers in our office, but seeing another mom that’s in the same phase and saying, okay, I’ve got this. She’s having the same challenges I have, or she’s, you know, crushing it just like I am. And they become friends, you know? And so oftentimes we have events where the moms get together, you know, or moms schedule their appointments around the same time so that the kids can play in the play area together. You know, it was our goal when we started this is that’s what we wanted. We wanted families to feel empowered and have fun and, and know that their bodies are meant to be well and be healthy and have fun together.

Anne Nicholson Weber: (30:53)
I think all of this comes back to, um, the awareness that we share as people who care about pregnant women and new families, which is, there’s no such thing as too much support, as too much community, as too many connections. So many mothers are feeling isolated. And all of these, um, ways that they can find different kinds of support, connection information are invaluable, um, in getting family off on the right foot early on. Well, I think that’s a great place to stop and I am so grateful to both of you for taking the time to talk to me about this. So thanks very much.